If you are an Amazon shopper in the United States, you must be very happy with their service and generous return policy, especially when you buy items shipped and sold by Amazon. Basically, we can return items without explanation as long as they were purchased within 30 days. They even pay for return shipping if your received item is defective or doesn’t match the description.
However, it doesn’t mean that you can abuse the system and use it as a try-out/rental service. The Seattle-based company has tightened the policy and over the last few years, a lot of Amazon accounts have been suspended when users request refunds excessively and there is no way to appeal the decision. So, what is the return limit and how to avoid being banned by Amazon?
Why Amazon Bans Accounts for Returns?
The National Retail Federation highlights that retailers face losses exceeding $800 billion due to merchandise returns, a figure that’s on the rise annually. Amazon incurs billions in losses each year because of their return policies. If you return items excessively, it might jeopardize your membership. Amazon makes it easy and free to make the returns; You can either mail them back or drop off at Whole Foods, Kohl’s or a UPS Store. It’s not even mandatory for the item to be in its original packaging.
However, the process becomes more complex if your purchase comes from a third-party seller on Amazon. Each of these sellers has their return policies. While you might be eligible for a refund within a month, return shipping fees might be on you. Retailers, on average, anticipate nearly 18% of their merchandise will be returned for various reasons. Retailers offer product returns and exchanges to enhance the shopping experience for customers, but these policies can prove to be financially burdensome. The high costs associated with product returns include shipping, inventory processing, and other miscellaneous expenses.
What’s the return limit? When will Amazon ban your account?
Amazon is collecting data of all your transactions and they will stop doing business with you when they lose money. Till now, no one knows the exact return limit. In my case, I shop a lot on Amazon in the last 5 years, I sign up for Prime membership, and spend around $1200 per month on the site. I buy almost everything on the site, from cheap products like groceries, books, toilet paper to expensive laptops and electronics. That means I also return more when they don’t meet my expectation. In the last 2 months, I returned 2-3 items each month and the value of refunded items was higher than the value of what I kept. That’s the reason why I received a warning from Amazon:
“We’re writing to apologize for the number of issues you’ve experienced with your shipments. Your correspondences with us indicate you’ve required refunds on a majority of orders for a number of reasons.”
They also said that I had an unusually high rate of problems and they will evaluate each account on a case-by-case basis and might close my account if necessary. Fortunately, this is just a warning and Amazon want to work with me to avoid the worst case. They recommended to comply with Amazon policies or both of Amazon buying and selling accounts will be banned.
I tried to access my order history on the website but it failed to log in or redirected me to the digital content library. Fortunately, I managed to check my orders in the Amazon app on my phone. In the last 6 months, I ordered 104 items and returned 18 items, so the rate of return is approximately 17% of the total number of purchased items. Besides, the total value of returned items is just over 10% of total purchases.
On the Returns Center page, Amazon mentions that they send full refund for new, unopened items sold and fulfilled by Amazon within 30 days. Many of the items I returned were no longer in brand new condition, so this might be another reason they decided to penalize my account.
I sent Amazon an email to appeal the decision but they decided not to restore my account and said the decision is final. This is quite surprising because sometimes they sent me the wrong item; For instance, I ordered a snow pant and received an apron.
Read also:
- Amazon Associates Banned my Affiliate Account multiple times, What I did wrong?
- No More Refund for Price Change on Amazon
Update 1: My wife returned a bicycle purchased in her account. Just a few days later, Amazon decided to cancel both of the accounts for not meeting the terms of Conditions of Use agreement. They said I cannot open a new account or use another account to order on the site. All open orders were canceled, I just could access digital content purchased in the account. I had over $100 in my gift card balance and Amazon agreed to send me the refund, I received a check in my mailbox after 1 week.
Update 2: Since my Amazon.com customer account is banned, all other services including Amazon Seller and Amazon Associates accounts were also closed. After contacting the customer service and explaining how I was a valuable member, they investigated and sent me another email welcoming me back to the program. Afterwards, I’ve used the new account for shopping and making money online for a while and haven’t got any problem so far.
“I’m very sorry that I’ve had to close your Associates account with Associate ID because we’ve been told the attached Amazon.com account will be closed within 24 hours. If you should ever wish to reconsider, we’d certainly welcome you back to the program with a different email address. You can apply for a new Associates account anytime. Your unpaid balance due to you will be paid out 60 days following the end of this month. You’ll continue to receive monthly payment reports and occasional announcements regarding tools, and features for up to 60 days after the end of this month. We look forward to seeing you again.“
How to Avoid Being Suspended
When you receive the warning email, you should immediately check your Amazon account to find out unusual account activities. If you return too many items lately, you should have good reasons and don’t forget to take some pictures if the products are defective or different from what you ordered. Then you should reply to [email protected] and explain what went wrong with your orders.
In case you are abusing the system and returning items without legit reasons, you should stop immediately and also send them an email saying you will be more careful buying products in the future. Try to keep the return rate lower than 10%. Some banned users reported that Amazon also terminated their accounts after the return rate overcame 10%, so it is best to keep the rate as low as possible.
After sending them an email, I received a polite response from Amazon and seemingly my account will be alright.
Hello,
Thanks for writing to us and we are sorry for any misunderstandings with the email you received.
We’re concerned about the activity on your account and want to do all that we can to avoid the inconvenience you experience having to make frequent and possibly avoidable returns of the items you purchase from Amazon.com and with any delivery issues with your orders.
We contacted you so we could better understand the activity on your account and learn how to improve your shopping experience.
Your account remains open and available for your use. If you have any concerns regarding your orders, please contact our customer service and they will help you accordingly.
We appreciate your understanding, and hope to see you again soon.
Best regards,
Account Specialist
Many people assumed that online shopping is similar to in-store shopping, which means you could try on items and return in case you are not satisfied. However, their system analyzes your purchase history and will mark your account as “Concession Abuse”. They will stop accepting returns for all of your future orders and if you somehow keep abusing the policy, your account will be permanently suspended.
When initiating a return, you will be asked for the reason such as defective or broken item, exchange for a different size or color, etc. Make sure to answer the question honestly because Amazon will actually examine the return to check its condition. Your account might be flagged if they find out there is nothing wrong with the item.
Besides, you might be in trouble if you order a lot of clothes on Amazon to try on and only keep a few. When shopping for clothes, you should find item eligible for Prime Wardrobe. It is free for Prime members and allows you to try up to 8 items at a time; Then you can keep what fit you and return all others without any penalization.
Another tip is avoiding ordering bulky items like bicycles or furniture from Amazon. They arrive damaged very often and when Amazon accepts the free return, they probably has a loss for this transaction. When this happens repetitively, obviously they wouldn’t want to continue doing business with you.
Last but not least, if you buy an item from a 3rd-party seller (shipped by Amazon) and have an issue with it, try to contact and resolve with the seller first instead of returning it to Amazon. In many cases, the seller might even send you a full refund without item return. This would help you avoid a strike in your account.
In a recent statement, Amazon mentioned that they are forced to close accounts when they detect extreme abuse but it only happens after they carefully review the account and work with the customer over an extended period of time. In early 2023, Amazon started flagging frequently returned items to encourage customers to check out more details and customer reviews before placing the order. The return labels can negatively impact sales, prompting sellers to modify their listings or products to be more accurate. While retailers factor in returns when pricing their products, current economic conditions, such as corporate cutbacks, have resulted in higher return rates, necessitating tighter policies.
Have you got any issue with your Amazon account? Share with us in a comment below.
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Geoff says
I’ve been banned for returns… spend 30k a year and still got banned
DonL says
Why don’t you post up all your reasons for the returns and we’ll see who’s to blame.
Bob says
DonL “we’ll see who’s to blame.” Sounds like you are blaming Geoff before getting the facts. I recently got banned for returns. It was a crazy high percentage in one bad month. But yes there were all defective. I wasn’t abusing / trying and returning. Problem was that I ordered too many cheap products one month. One of many examples, Amazon fulfillment shipping a USB device + CD packaged in sandwich bag!!!. CD cracked in shipping, replacement came with a CD completely scuffed. Was an Amazon customer for over 11 years. Didn’t have these problems before. Complete ban is excessive in my opinion. It would be more effective to have a temporary ban or even allow purchases but limit returns until the “ratio” is acceptable 1% 0.1% 0.01%(more than reasonable). Customer still has the option of manufacture warranty claim in worst case. Prime gives you a false sense of security, I ended up buying more and was also much more willing to try the cheaper products because of Amazon’s “Guarantee”. I even checked with customer service before initiating some returns and they said I should return, CIS banned me afterwards. Amazon customer service and Amazon CIS are two separate departments that don’t communicate with each other and tell you two different things. These warnings/bans are algorithm generated and CIS@amazon are overseas reps working off a script.
Ara says
ahhh. so that explains it. I too got banned for too many returns and my orders cancelled. I thought there were several peeps at the cis acccount. I had spoken to cust sevice MANAGER who suggested I cancel an order, she would refund +$20 and then reorder for delivery next day as I was prime member. The next day I try to log in only to find I was banned. cis told me all my orders were cancelled. However, 3 bed frames et al are left at my front door 3 days later. SInce I bought elsewhere and cis said they cancelled, I told them they need to arrange p/u. I got a real Einstein who tells me I need to provide order numbers. I replied I cannot since they closed my account and she would have to do it.
I further explained I owed for one bed frame since I decided I might as well keep. Just did not compute. CIs told me they had reviewed my account and I did not owe. What kills me is they write as tho I am a moron, ie., giving me the bank name & fone number for Amazon visa bank and Amazon store card. Somehow they decide I am owed a refund but have no info on me to send a check. Getting UPS labels took a week of back and forth emails as they would issue as tho my account was still active. I actually thought these people were brain dead! I’m so aggravated I want to write Jeff Besos a snail mail since reception is not able to put any calls thru to anyone except cis.
I did have a number of returns just before this but they were returned unopened (ie saleable) b/c the info on the website not accurate plus phony reviews.
I agree with Bob prime membership gives a false sense of security but there have been many times I NEEDED the product immediately and it never arrived, So I paid for shipping I did not get.
Plus I still cannot get on Amazon kindle despite me getting the same generic banning all of you above got.
I honestly think this was a rush to judgement by a low level clerk (b/c of return of bed frame suggested by customer service MANAGER) and there was no backing down. I can’t say I was terribly nice about it after the fact tho. I did try to appeal but got the auto ‘forget it, get lost’
I’m wondering how the O.P. got account back.
Ara says
ETA: I did not get any warning. I got one a year ago, b/c I ordereed clothes & shoes that did not fit. I explained to customer service rep and she said “oh ok, fine, don’t worry about it.”
Alan says
To anyone who gets banned I suggest that they do chargebacks on every item they’ve purchased
J Goldberg says
You are EXACTLY the kind of problem buyer Amazon has smartly decided to purge; whiny, full of excuses, unable to accept responsibility for your actions.
The bottom line: people like you cost them money, and they’re not on business to lose money.
James says
I returned 2 items, over $100 each… spoke to customer service, explained reason for return and concern to avoid misunderstanding, as well as included note in return. This was in October and November 2015. I made 15 purchases in early December for approx 3 times the purchase price of those returns. On December 28th I received an email stating my account was closed. All efforts to explain, or get an explanation have been rejected. When you are the largest retailed, you can say go when there is no sun. I was a member for 10 years… received first and only notification regarding returns in September 2015.
James says
Furthermore… Kindle, lost value… fire, lost value, game and movie purchases, now an inconvenience… customer service may be domestic, but has zero correspondence with the cis (account specialist) department definitely lives on cut and paste scripts.
Brian says
James that makes ZERO sense, you returned 2 items and then received a warning…and then you bought 15 items and returned 0 and they closed your account? Sounds fishy to me
Pete says
J goldberg your a moron. Excuse people for being angry and spiteful to a company that has turned to shit in the last year.
nur Ali sandheere says
If I use poor English what problems?
If I use your page don’t.t you respect me?
loyal amozon customre says
i cant not speek english proprely to. its is ok …
Edward says
People that return excessively should be banned! So wasteful! The retailer is forced to raise prices due to this thoughtless waste. So ignorant and selfish if you ask me.
Mike says
Great comment! It’s wasteful, thoughtless, and yes ignorant and selfish! I love it! These people are leeches and sponges that essentially rob others.
James Holt says
I think you are very ignorant. If you ever order in bulk and have realized that a lot of the products on Amazon are very cheap and Chinese made you will realize that quite a few times you will get a bad product, but you are supposed to take the financial hit so that someone else can buy the same product at a cheaper rate? This makes no sense at all. I purchase about 20k a year in purchases from Amazon there are bad months where I have received products with holes, products that were broken in shipping, products that were not advertised correctly. Is it my fault? No, it is not. I returned about 2,000 dollars worth of products or exchanged it with the same product sent again if it was broken in transport or it was torn or stained. Part of being in retail is accepting that you will have returns. A 10-15% return rate is quite common especially when you have a global marketplace. Amazon is becoming extremely aggressive blocking accounts or banning members when they are not looking at the quality of their transportation nor the quality of the products that they allow to sell.
Oiddio says
Stupid comment
CLENY SMITH says
I DONT WANT A RETURN OF ANY FUNDS I AM GOING TO KEEP THE SAID ITEM THAT AMAZON,.COM SENT ME I JUST HOPE THAT AMAZON.COM GET THIS MASSAGE
J Goldberg says
What you’re “spending” is irrelevant when a great percentage of that sum is refunded to you and the merchandise isn’t resealable.
You’re not a “customer” in their view, you’re a liability, and smart business proactively manage liabilities.
DG says
What an arrogant prick you are. You automatically decide to side with amazon without knowing really any of the facts. I hope you get a bunch of defective crap from them and then blame yourself for ordering defective crap. What a complete jerk you are.
Rick ROG says
Real nice calling someone an “arrogant prick” and cursing said person.
So people are not allowed to side with Amazon now? Amazon is a privately listed commercial company if they are not up to your expectation then just don’t do any business with them, vote with your wallet and not just your mouth. Calling someone “jerk” and “prick” and cursing them is simply uncalled for.
Smallxrum says
If the shoe fits…
Jessik says
Shady customers like u should be banned forever
SukMyPipI says
LOL I rapped this sh*tty place you called a business for loads from computers, cameras, movies, video games, etc.. Got banned and came back a year later to rape for more. Moral of the story, don’t treat your customers like dirt or else they’ll do the same.
Lamar says
theres no such thing as privately listed u retard. its either privately held or its listed on the stock market. get ur shit straight or dont comment
RGN says
And whoosh, Rick ROG’s comment flies over Lamar’s head.
MAL says
Hmmm, J Goldberg started the whole thing if you ask me. Calling commenters/customers: “whiny”. It goes both ways. If you don’t want nastiness addressed to you then don’t reply with nastiness or either shut it. I’m sure lots of folks heard the old say: “If you do not have anything nice to say….”.
Jean says
Well said
Linda Smith says
They are not privately listed, in fact they’re publicly traded. Just so you know…
Claude says
Real question is, when you’re sent a bunch of crap, as you state, why would you wish to deal with Amazon? In the real world do you keep coming back to a store that sells you crap? Please.
Anon says
Another Amazon employee making excuses for his employers bad business practices. This webpage is full of them apparently. Please yourself.
Keith says
Excellent point. Too many people abusing the system and they always have a story and they are always innocent. I actually DO but thousands of dollars worth of stuff and keep it mostly, I have not been banned and have been a customer since 2001. These people love to say how much they spend but they scam the system by returning non defective items. I believe people who say they spend this or that much are pure liars. I do not believe them. They will berate you like Anon does if you dare say anything positive about Amazon. but your point it…if they suck so bad, go elsewhere is precious. They find out that they abused Amazon and regret it immediately by trying to get back in the door. Screw em, good riddance. Does Amazon make mistakes, I am sure they do. But like all little cherubs these people are “all” innocent. BS, I would say if Amazon made 5% mistakes getting rid of people it would be massive. It is not in their best interest to just throw people away. People who get banned from Amazon are mostly liars and have justified their own bad behavior in their own head.
Joseph says
I am sure Amazon has good reason to ban abusive buyers. They are normally very accommodating on returns especially for Prime subscribers and it has to be a really excessive amounts returns for them to ban you. Many of you here know that they will go to the extent of issuing a full refund on the spot, without return at times should you insist. Knowing how fair and buyer-centric Amazon is would make me wonder why they would be willing to pass up a yearly $100 subscription, and profit on most of your internet purchases if you were not outright thieves trying to scam the system. You people are dishonestly trying to play the system that is based on the honor system.
BG Davis says
Jeff, is that you?
Rooster Coburn says
I return stuff on Amazon. I am also against the idea of banning people from commerce, it is not a free market economy model. I think it is really odd and weird that there are other people who buy stuff on Amazon that would call that abusive. The idea of an Abusive Buyer is truly ridiculous. Because if there is an issue with the buyer the seller can stop selling. When I was studying for my MBA I don’t think in all my accounting, business or economics classes Abusive Buying ever came up a single time. Swing and a miss.
ArchieinColorado says
Well, kinda explains why Amazon did not want to deal with Mr. Your are an arrogant prick !!
dave says
well I can see it from amazon side too .. the idea is to be profitable.. that’s why people sell.. to make money.. you can read what people say about the product and see what the 1 and 2 stars have to say about it… I see 4 1/2 5 stars but i see lower stars I watch what they have to say. I think mosty online shopers are compulssive buyers. course that is my opinion. I personally rather go to target – home depot- walmart and buy a product and know exactly what i’m geting than order a unknown online. Specially clothes. I mean 99 percent time you order clothes it going be return. The other side is once a product is open who they going sell it too without a loss. You go to a stpore see a box been resealed do u buy it? probably not right. So thety have sell it at a loss. Defective.. ok It been shiped said it new. though some items sold as new are either older version of that product or refurbished. And sell it as new. I wanted a purple hard drive … i couldn’t find a local store that had one. read reviews and decided pay the xtra 8.00 to buy directly from westrern digital.. Because there was a issue of it being a new model or older one. Read and be careful sometimes you better off paying more. And shop else where. People look at a product see low price buy without thinking. Yup compklaints of lots of defective items on ebay amazon etc.. If it’s something you really want and need it working buy from a store. or through store online . than amazon. Saving money doesn’t mean you geting same or better poroduct. means you don’t mind having send item back.
Dan says
I wish they would make buyers have to state if they decided to buy one of the “used” items because you never know if the complaint is for a new item or someone trying to spend as little as possible and bought a used item then complained because they got a used item. That having been said I’ve rarely had to send things back, but due to reviews not being detailed enough say clothing sizes, you have to buy and if the sizing is too off you have to send it back. I did reorder and took a chance and washed just one to see if it would be good fit and it was so I’m keeping and may order more, but now I’ve got 2 long talls because I didn’t know witch would work and don’t think these will be much shorter even after a wash which I’d have to try and hope. What got me here wasn’t being banned but realizing if I signed in I was only being offered an item I previously bought and liked and wanted more of from one seller only, if I didn’t sign in then there’s all the other sellers who showed up before. Which makes me think they now don’t like you using your prime 2 day shipping too often, why else would they be indirectly discouraging me buying by only showing one expensive seller? I didn’t return these, I did ask for a credit for paying a next day charge for 2 cases of cookies, both came in same box but one case every box was melted so that means it shipped already melted and I opted to try send me another one case only and cs asked one or two, I could have lied but don’t do that and lucky the replacement case was fine. So why the not showing me? I got prime because I’m doing renovation work and it saves me a 50 mile RT plus I buy food items that aren’t always at the store but don’t want to subscribe to for the reason above. If they offer subscribe anyway, then why should it matter if I order one thing and then next day realize I need another? I try to buy whatever I can think of to avoid Amazon having too many shipping costs but I paid for prime which is going up $20 in Dec. I’ve only returned 3 items this year 2 were clothing but bought correct sizes again and other one was for boots that had an obvious manufacture flaw that took 3 months to appear, only worn inside only when cold they still looked brand new, looked at same boot reviews but in womens and exact same flaw, I sent pics as it wasn’t on Amazon but seller to refund me which they did but after finding this site I’m leery of sending back the too long shirts since it seems they’re already trying to get me to not want to buy and I’ve been buying regularly more in cost than the return amounts by far. Why would I go for more of the same if I might get another melted case because both times I only got one case they were fine but both times I got 2 cases one was melted and even then the first time it was only 2 of the 12 boxes in one case, other case was fine so I let it go, I could’ve complained but didn’t. Either we pay for prime and get what we pay for or don’t offer prime Bezos.
Kate says
If you knew how many people abuse Amazon you would change your attitude. Not just returns, but concession abuse. Saying they didn’t receive something when they did. Wanting credit for nothing. Well Amazon is finally doing something about the criminals so get used to it. It’s always the assholes that think they should get something for nothing. They’re watching you.
Lisa Manahan says
I find your comment offensive. I have been an Amazon customer for a long time and while I am still able to purchase items, they banned me from the community for absolutely no reason. That ban means that I can no longer leave reviews (they actually deleted all mine and there were hundreds) and I am not allowed to post a question about a product. I never did anything even remotely improper, but they refuse to budge and won’t tell me why. You can assume everyone Amazon bans deserves it, but wait until it happens to you, you’ll definitely be singing a different tune!
Bentley says
#GOLDBERG-what do you expect?
Shane says
Exactly he is worse than a prick a idiot
An Amazonian says
Goldberg is, well, a goldberg! …. Bergs side with bergs by any name as long as they’re ‘JEW”
Mike says
You’re an idiot…
lolthisguy says
wow, you’re a pampered brat
bix says
>Goldberg
lol
Rooster Coburn says
To J Goldberg,
Don’t worry, you aren’t an arrogant prick, you merely have an inflammatory “writing style”.
You also should realize you are arguing for market restrictions, which is the opposite of a free market economy.
A free market economy is synonymous with capitalism and liberty. So when you argue in favor of the company Amazon imposing market restrictions on consumers, like Amazon is very clearly doing by banning customers who choose to exercise the return policy, you are in a sense arguing against the ideal of free market economies that patriots have fought to defend. You’re aren’t an idiot, a pampered brat, an arrogant prick, who just support a restricted economy and are against freedom in the marketplace.
Maybe Amazon’s long term strategy is to first enable consumer dependency and then, once market dominance is achieved, they will radically change their policies for the worse after disrupting the brick and mortar supply-chain.
Jack says
Right on!
Seans Ar Bith says
Roger that!
Mark Smythe says
Rooster Moron: Go back to Breitbart with your idiotic nonsense that you don’t even understand.
Peter P. says
Apart from the socialist bullshit, he is actually spot-on – Amazon is notorious for bait-and-switch practices…. remember Amazon Drive Unlimited offer? Look it up if you’re not familiar…just one example….
Notfive0 says
Right on. Those abusers are also the idiots who complain in product reviews that their round peg won’t fit in a square hole. Or that the non prescription sun glasses they ordered weren’t shipped with their prescription so they can’t use them.
Matthew Huszarik says
You fail your MBA test market restrictions are by government entities not buyers and sellers. In a free enterprise system buyers and sellers can create any restrictions they like it all just becomes part of their offer.
Jack says
Right on!
Nonameneeded says
Abusers will be banned. Even Walmart is doing the same thing. You have no idea how much money certain customers cost Amazon with fake complaints of not receiving items, items arriving “broken” but you don’t want to ship them back. People open then damage items expecting refunds. Walmart keeps track of all purchases and returns now and will be doing the same. Bottom line be honest and you’ll always have a leg to stand on.
janet halverson says
Oh, please, that would be way too easy! I wish it would go back to that but, unfortunately, it seems those days went with the “hand-shake”
TMP says
Whatever happened to reading reviews and cross checking brands before buying? I have had 2 issues that I ordered from Amazon 1 the item was broken and the other NEVER showed up, I even had UPS correspondence attached to emails. Those issues were rectified and I learned to cross check anything I buy 1st on Amazon. I am an avid Amazon shopper but I use other sites to make sure I don’t get ripped off, unknown brand items, websites that claim to be legit businesses. Buyer Beware attitude toward any and all companies is the only way to be cautious these days it seems.
Linda says
******TMP if you go to the website fakespot you can put in the information of the item you are trying to purchase on Amazon or any other online website and it will tell you, by use of a software formula, whether those “reviews” are most likely real or fake reviews sent from company employees or people hired to just sit and write reviews all day long. That site has helped me make so many purchasing decisions. Unfortunately, you can’t rely simply on reviews any longer. If you’re looking at reviews, always check the dates of them because often times there will be several reviews on the same day or the day before and day after that day. Obviously, for big ticket items, you would do your due diligence by reviewing the products on consumer reports or other informational websites. I hope this helps you.
B Fife says
SHUT UP, GOLDBERG
Idiosynkrazy says
I wonder if it’s the same policy for items not received . Since I live in front of a school, kids tend to steal packages off the porch and sometimes even the back door too
Jana says
Idiosynkrazy, if I were Amazon, I’d say it’s the same thing because you’re a financial liability to them even though it’s really the fault of the thieves. Ultimately, you have the option of preventing theft by arranging to have packages held at a UPS/FedEx/Post Office location or delivered to a more secure location (friend, family, workplace, neighbor who will be home, etc). The only option available to Amazon to prevent theft is to stop shipping packages to you.
Claude says
Agreed. You are responsible for providing a secure shipping address. One mistake can happen, two, no.
Anon says
Claude = Amazon Rep here to defend everything this company does.
Jack says
No. It’s based on the loss %. If items are sent back and not resell able. If it is an algorithm and think you are a risk, they will review your Acoount and see how much is not delivered and take that away from your % loss. But if there seems to be a trend if items not received then again if they can’t make money and the customer is costing them money it makes sense to not sell to you anymore. We order items for ex 2 different sizes. We get them and send the one that does not fit right away. It can be resold. It will not count as a loss.
Claudia says
You need to change your mode of delivery acceptance. It’s not up to Amazon to police kids stealing your packages; you’re responsible for providing a secure venue.
Dayle Hudson says
You need to let the postal or ups know not to deliver unless you are home. You will then need to pick them up at post office or ups.
Brian says
Maybe you should live in a better area or set up a camera (buy one on amazon) or have someone home when the package says it’s being delivered. If I owned a company and you were buying items from me and I was sending them and on multiple occasions “kids were stealing them” I would consider you not a customer anymore ?♂️
Fredrica says
Amazon is digusting.Will switch manufactures on you without your consent .Will never buy from amazon again . You buy from one company will switch with another companys product that does not work!
Rob Culbertson says
Glad to see this particular topic finally posted here, Alot of times what will happen in my Amazon general account not sellers or associate account because I do not even have one, is this. I will order something and realize I did not select a color or size or something stupid like that, in the past I used to immediately cancel the order and the money would be put back in my account at that moment literally. Well now Amazon is exercising their policy to take their time it has been sometimes 5-7 business days before the money is put back. so I started contacting my bank and having them turn back the charge before the transaction posted but still in what Wells Fargo calls “Transactions in Process” which means the purchase has been authorized and the funds put on hold, and I understand that. However now 3-4 days go by and I get a nastygram from amazon stating that “You had your bank force drop one of our authorized transactions therefore that is considered theft and your account will be banned without notice” of course upon investigation so says amazon. to date that has not happened yet here is the dirty little secert, after the bank turned back the payment to amazon at the bank level amazon then tried to put the money back again to honor the cancel / refund and was pleasantly surprised to see that the money or refund was not done in their control but in the customers control, oh they could not have that, well I am sorry but I am geting sick and tired of amazon not advising me beforehand when they go to ding my bank account without notice well before that amazon is taking their annual payment for the Prime membership, and my bank dings me $35.00 for every time they process the first and then reattempt the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and fifth attempts lets see i do the math and $35.00 x 5 is $175.00 that someone else gets as the result of ole hoimie here not being notified that they (amazon) wants to debit my bank for the Prime membership something like $100.00 or whatever it is. all because their pissed because the root if this entire issue was originally because I returned or more like honestly canceled a few orders to prevent amazon as well as myself from having to go thru the whole after purchase is complete refund process which is a royal pain in the axx. Beware people of the merchants and banks doing this, the bank will say that the merchant is in full control and the merchant will say the bank is in full control the truth to this is the MERCHANT IS IN FULL CONTROL, I verified this by using the tried and true “TRUTHOMETER” that being the weapon of choice THREE WAY CONFERENCE CALLING” started by good ole GTE in the 80’s as the two in question here are the people with power the bank and the merchant and no lie hands down everytime guess who wins the arguement the BANK, because the minute you press the Buy Now button or the, I buyer authorize the Merchant to deduct this specific charge from my bank account” what your actually doing is saying to the merchant here is full and uninterrupted access to my account. Same goes for the convenient “AutoPay” that almost all of your utilitiy companies use now and sites like amazon and FeeBay. and especially eBay because ebay locks you in before you get to the pay screen atleast amazon doesnt do that. the moral to this story is this buyer beware however I was lucky and after fighting with the bank for almost a month with several calls to my attorney and executive offices in San Francisco, Wells Fargo refunded without question over Two Thousand Dollars in Fees Alone, not to mention for every “ReProcess” comes the actual original payment that was attached with that, and usually do not get included they actually doubled up on them if you can believe that.. A few simple rules to remember and these are not terms of service or contracts but just the simple Rules of Rob and online shopping:
1. Be damn sure you have everything perfect on that order before you press “BUY NOW” or “CLICK TO PAY” or whatever the hell the site is using.
2. Remember the hidden policys that Geoff was hit with.
3. Remember the hidden stuff that the Legends of Long Beach were hit with at his bank (will gladly send anyone that wants the call records of that issue)
oh and btw forgot one very important weapon the buyer can uses now, if you have Voip especially if your your own provider, “Call Record All” feature.
for those that have systems like the Sangoma FreePBX or Asterisk this is easily turned on in admin features and with NO BEEP just announce it when the call
is connected and most of the time you will get the canned answer that says something like this, “Excuse me sir your recording this call too? the minute you say
yes, expect your call to be transfered to a manager, every call i have ever taken or made is recorded from start to finish since the inception of two little
trunks I pay two dollars a month for from Metric Infinity, albeit I had to purchase a Sangoma server under $1,000.00 but well worth it. I even recorded the cops once that took a bunch of my equipment and supposedly put it into evidence well the little bastards kept it and I found out about it down to the date and time.
4. Keep these simple tips in mind and you should remain safe!! Thats all Folks!!!
Bye
The Legend
The Legend says
I raid about 20 words then realised you just gave me aids.
MrPete says
Your practice of blocking at the bank Will get you banned at almost any vendor. Why?
a) it costs them in time and dollars. Yes, more than the amount charged.
2) When you blocked the charge, you signed/approved a statement saying that you tried to work it out with the vendor and they would not refund the charge. Obviously, you lied. You were just in a hurry.
3) Since you locked their charge, you don’t like doing business with them. Why should they do business with you?
Linda says
Ummm…Rob, I hate to say this, but I think you need to see a shrink because you’re not making a whole bunch of sense on here. Just ask your TRUTHOMETER, I’m sure it will tell you the same thing. By the way, they ABSOLUTELY do inform you a month in advance by email and on your account messages that your Prime membership is coming due and they are going to automatically withdraw the funds on the date they specify. That’s what an automatic subscription is. And just for the heads up, I heard the Prime membership is going up to $119 on the next renewal. Just sayin’
Wow says
Have you heard of this new invention called “periods”? They are placed at the end of a sentence and allows people to actually understand what in the he’ll you’re trying to say.
Brian says
Holy crap, this guy calls himself the “Legend” when he can’t even select the right color or size of a product ? man I have never in my life read such a load of diarrhea. Let me get this straight, you screw up, and can’t select the right products size or color, not just ONCE but MULTIPLE times and you then can’t wait the return period of 5-7 days, WOW a whole week amazon is going to take your dumb product back and refund you and let you buy again! But no you put a BLOCK on your account to show them who’s the legend ?…I have a lot more to say but your not worth my time and it would sound a lot like this ?????? …oh yea and record this———> you are the problem not amazon, and you “legend” are the type of people who ruin it for the truthful ones…good day!
David says
Thank you Amazon for banning abusive accounts.There’s a lot of return abuse going on, 95% of the products are good products and no need to return them.
See Buckley says
I totally agree….I love the convenience and huge variety…..and Prime Video is the Bomb.
Sirrics says
I have returned many items to Amazon. Most of them have been damaged due to shipping. If I make a mistake, I don’t lie to them. I pay the shipping back and return it in new condition. I could lie like many do, but they are not the ones that made the mistake. Amazon has always been good with working with us to correct their mistakes. One time going as far as issuing a one year prime membership because my Grandson birthday present didn’t arrive on time due to the shipper diverting it to a different state. If I receive something that is damaged I take picture of the box on arrival. I forward those photos to the customer service rep while talking to them on the phone. There is no question to its condition upon arrival.
Costco adopted similar tracking policies about 5 years ago. Let’s face the facts folks. We’ve all seen it in line at Costco. Last years a woman in the Midwest was photographed returning a Xmas tree to Costco the 3rd week in January. She was claiming that since it died before the 1st of March that it was obviously a defective product. Costco did refund her money because they have a Customer Satisfaction Guarantee. However, they cancelled her Membership and gave a refund on the spot for it too. We all know that this woman was scamming the system and taking advantage of Costco’s generous return policy.
Ever wondered why stores are now requiring to see your ID for all returns. They are tracking customers for excessive returns. I just bought a floor jack at Harbor Freight for $30.00 less than new. Why? A customer bought it. Took it home and used it once to jack up something, scratched the paint in one spot and then returned it because they didn’t need it. That meant the store lost $30.00 from that product just because someone was dishonest and couldn’t find someone to loan him one or unwilling to go to the equipment rental store and rent one for a day. So who pays for that? We all do, its just that simple!
Linda says
I’m not agreeing with what that person did by returning the used product after using it once, but…..let’s face it, most, if not all items have a percentage built into the price of the item to account for store loss. And yes, we collectively pay the price for that.
Dayle Hudson says
I got a warning from qvc for too many returns. They were clothes and shoes. They didn’t fit. If I try something on in store and it doesn’t fit I don’t buy it anyway. What are we suppose to do?
JoeSchmoe says
The JEWISH owner of Amazon is almost a trillionaire. What’s the JEW crying about? I could not get a refund on an unopened product that had no warning that it can cause birth defects. The only warning about the chemical was on the label. but not in the item description. Stuck throwing it in the trash. I have a right to complain because I’m no trillionaire, and the product was still sealed in new unused condition.
B says
What does being Jewish have to do with this you ignorant hick . Maybe you should stick w walmart. They love returns . Make sure you were your tank top wife beater
Min says
Their market share is so big that they can fire customers that are too expensive to cater to. High return rates equate to additional shipping costs to return the items along with those same returns consuming warehouse space that could’ve been used for new items. I kept wondering if Amazon would crack down on the returns because their policy can easily be costly to the company in the long run regardless of whether a customer intended to abuse the policy or just happened to have several items that didn’t meet expectations. In the end, whatever is costly (or could potentially become costly) to a company will be considered for reduction/removal.
KEvin says
And that it? there is no recourse. I was banned and there is no appeal. Does this really mean lifetime? They even closed my sellers account (opened but never sold anything anyways)
Tuan Do says
You can try contacting Amazon Account Specialist at [email protected], many banned accounts appealed the decision successfully.
Jerry says
How? I’ve been banned, haven’t used amazon in about 6 months.
I tried appealing the day I got banned and got a no for an answer. Can you please let me know how I should structure my appeal?
Jerry says
I got banned for too many returns, I tried appealing via email to [email protected] the day of the ban, but was told no.
How should I structure my appeal to them again, after 6 months?
Tuan Do says
You should list all items you’ve returned along with reason and pictures of those products. You need to prove you are not abusing Amazon’s return policy.
J Goldberg says
Yep, you’re done on their site. Forever. Maybe you’ll learn from this experience before it happens again, as other retailers are taking notice and following Amazon in their efforts to rid themselves of problem buyers…
DG says
This world needs to rid itself of arrogant pricks like you.
Rob C says
And what do you call yourself DG, c’mon man i respect freedom of speech but that comment is a direct attack on J Goldberg, or whomever your saying this too. I fully expect the same from you as well so dont waste your carpal tunnel. I will say it so anyone else will not have to.
YOU DG ARE AN ARROGANT PRICK!! AND DROP THE P ON PRICK AND THAT IS WHAT YOUR REAL NAME PROBABLY IS, SO WHAT A FITTING TITLE FOR YOU MY PRICK!!! and poetic justice at that..
The Legend
Linda says
Drop the P on Prick and you have “Rick.” I don’t get the poetic justice….
M Lesnar says
Oh really J Goldberg? Other companies are taking notice and following Amazon in their efforts to rid themselves of problem buyers? Please do source this. Show proof of these many retailers who are following suit. I’m sure you can’t since you seem to get off replying here nonstop antagonizing people. Go outside kiddo.
yesenia says
I have noticed this trend which may not be as extreme as Amazon but definitely less favorable to customers. Toys R Us employed The Retail Equation which uses a risk model for determining patterns among customers, including but not necessarily those who abuse return policies. This third party asset protection agency even describes how their system flags customers who are genuinely honest but indecisive and suffer from “buyer’s remorse” which is not considered a legitimate reason to return merchandise.
I believe Sephora may use The Retail Equation also. And, even WalMart has recently taken steps to track and limit all returns.
J Goldberg, Do you work for The Retail Equation by chance? (Yeesh!)
Rob C says
See Lesnar, I bet your Pricks friend Leave these people alone please, albeit your comment was not vulgar and over the top this is the freedom of speech I am talking about. but you are living up to your comment “I’m sure you can’t since you seem to get off replying here nonstop antagonizing people”
The Legend
ps
Since you seem to be counting this is only my second post in so many hours, am I an over poster and an antagonistic fool too.
get over it please
Natsue says
M. Lesnar…
Actually, I can answer that because I just read an article about Best Buy, out-sourcing it’s return policy to a third party company.
It seems, as though, they are no longer honoring the return policy, that is stated on reciepts and limiting people to 3 returns a year.
And, it doesn’t appear to have anything to do with receipts, either. Because, a majorty of the customers complaining, said that, they were within the 15 day time frame and had a reciept… they were still denied.
Some people said that the returns were allowed but they were warned that they couldn’t return anything for a year, while, others said, the returns were flat out denied. And, most people stated they weren’t given any reasons for the denial, other than, abuse of returns.
From what I understand other companies are using this particular company, as well.
So, it does appear to be a new trend of retailers fighting back against return fraud.
I, however, do not agree with this at all. If I’m purchasing an item in good faith, then, I expect some protection from a defective item. If, I’m buying a $5,000.00 t.v., you can bet your tush, that, I want some kind of refund policy to assure me that I’m not going to be out $5000.00.
And, according to these reports, there doesn’t seem to be any clarification between a true defective return and a frivolous or fraudulent return… basically, you return 3 items (one gentleman was banned for returning 3 unused phone cases- amounting to $80-90.) and your banned.
Maggie says
Best Buy has always been grumpy about returns so I rarely shop there.
spencer says
i want to put you in my oven KIKE!!!
LagunaJim says
Wow – you do realize that your last comment reflects entirely on you and not on the other person… right?
Disgusting and no excuse for that kind of comment.
Rob C says
Ohhhh hell no, didn’t even see that one that I would say that is almost a Hate Attack not you but the one your mentioning here I will not.
prolly will not get a response from him because of the post age but as an honorable mention the bulk of average people would not post or stand for that type of display of their anger and hostility to the world.
Kudos to ya Laguna Jim
The Legend
Joseph says
Anyone siding with the banned buyers here are most probably themselves thief trolls who deserve to be banned from purchasing anywhere. Take your scam techniques to eBay instead, try to steal some more, and see that they will eventually ban you as well. Small time scammers like you will never amount to anything successful in life. Maybe after being banned you should resort to armed robbery and hopefully get shot and killed in the process, making this world a better place.
Rob C says
Another perfect example of “GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT IN A COURT OF LAW” I am sorry that is not what this country is founded on, you my friend are being the Judge, Jury & Executioner in this and it is not fair to the forum and especially not to the individual your directing this to. Instead of wishing you to the cornfields I am hoping that someday you find yourself in a more than real situation where your arrested, tossed into the bowels of jail, railroaded into taking some sort of deal, and jacked over good. How bout this even better someone in the bowels of Just Us swipes your DNA and plants it at a murder Wow you think that cant happen, well let me educate you it does and all too often!!!
My friend
Have yourself a nice day
The Legend
ps
it is people like yourself that encourage “Armed Robbery” and “Hopefully Get Shot and Killed” who do you think their going to talk to first when that happens, YOU MY FRIEND what the heck is that kind of language sounds like that dude out there I called a Son at one time in another life he is a piece of work just like you.. All I consider him now and forever along with his mother is a SNITCH BITCH.
hope you get snitched out good..
Ebay seller says
Here here
Joe says
You Spencer, are the type of troll loser small time thief Amazon is trying to rid the internet of. You are undeserving of the right to any benefits of Amazon or anything else for that matter. Please take a gun, put it to your head, and pull the trigger. Help society be a better place for once in your lifetime.
Syd says
What the f***? Goldberg is clearly an ass, but calling him a “kike” is even worse…so on that we agree…but somehow, even though we both arrived at that conclusion, you then think it’s appropriate to tell someone to kill themself? What exactly is the principle you’re operating on?
Rob C says
Spencer your a hater “Put you in the Oven Kike” what in the heck is wrong with you anyhow
David says
J Goldberg really? So you don’t see the problem as being rubbish SELLERS who sell defective items? How extraordinary. Or perhaps you are just trying to collect the top down-vote award for all of your ridiculous posts!
Rob C says
Oh he is a seller huh that is even better but the KxxK word a bit uncalled for Is J Goldberg the same dude as Joseph if not you otta look at that one too. I tend to agree with you on another note the promotion of Suicide online is a Felony and if that were taken seriously by anyone that know the Just Us system the feds would come down on that like ten miles of bad road. on the internet that is attempted murder in the federal courts eyes at worst and at the least a Terrorist’ threat. again this is not towards yourself David but just agreeing with you on the comments of others being inappropriate. And someone that is a bit more educated in the Law than most thanks to a close and dear friend of mine whom I hate to say had his parents MURDERDED by the same corrupt aholes of like at least I am talking about here as I can not speak for you and wouldnt. Check out BLACKS LAW 10th edition. stuff you would not even believe existed it will blow your mind it is the SPIRIT OF THE LAW not the LETTER OF THE LAW that counts!!!! Quote “Sometimes You Just need a good Lawyer” from Richard L Poland Counselor at Law
thanks for listening
The Legend
ps
no ps’ to you hehe ha ha
troy staley says
This is a real problem with sellers as well. they don’t take history into account it would seem from my experience as a couple of years as a amazon seller. Having had some 3k plus transactions in a year and the resulting shipping which has on occasion had it’s own fiascoes which of course the seller is held responsible for even if it was a fed ex or ups or usps issue…. Having only something like 10% or slightly less of buyers who leave feedback (in my experience) the times a buyer has abused the program is more often than anyone would like. There seems to be more and more of this occurring now as well.
Having some 270+ positive feedbacks that year i spoke above of, and some 3 negative, and 5 neutral, the incident where the negative feedback has been where the abuse was so obvious that the seller wishes to fight (one occasion a cash counter was returned with half it’s insides removed and the abusing buyer didn’t even bother to put the bottom back on so it fell apart in our hands as we removed it from the box on the return) and in turn be told by amazon that it was a cost of doing business that we must absorb.
that kind of thing really galls a seller. anyone i would think. the guy claimed it was the wrong kind and not the one pictured. claimed anything to get to steal our item and return only part of it, then insist on his money back.. plus making us pay for shipping BOTH ways…
Serious sellers on amazon do their utmost to make sure their items are both functional and in good working order and cosmetically at least better than they described. It doesn’t make any sort of business sense, or survivability on amazon as a seller, to do otherwise..
Believe me, the sellers are screwed alot harder and frequently by amazon than the buyers so who are the buyers to complain?
troy staley says
Costly to amazon??? no, they don’t loose a nickel, they win every time and the actual individual sellers are taking the total costs of problems. amazon very seldom funds anything and it is when they are sure the seller is telling the truth because the buyer has crossed himself up in his emails back and forth during the dispute.
J Goldberg says
You’re wrong. Amazon loses their commission on returns, which is usually refunded to the seller when the item is refunded…
Rob says
Not entirely true – As an Amazon seller I know for a fact that Amazon charges the sellers a “Return Processing Fee” in a number of situations.
I feel outright ban of service is not the correct action Amazon should be taking in these cases. The should possibly start with informing the customer that due to the high rate of returns there will be a 15% restocking fee on ‘All’ returns for the next x months and if the problem persists they may be restricted from making ‘physical’ purchases for x months, revoke the prime membership (and refund a prorated amount) and only then if it still continues to be an issue consider a ‘ban’.
Mike says
Hey Goldberg….you work for Amazon??
Noel says
I have a friend who refuses to pay for return shipping so always makes up excuses so that Amazon will pay for the return. He received packages from Amazon 3 times a week, and returns often. He has never received any warning regards abusing the return system even though he really does. Makes me wonder how much a person has to return to be banned.
As a frequent but not huge Amazon shopper (few thousand a year) I find Amazon’s customer service to be the absolute best. Any problems I have with an order they are quick to mail a new one, refund a damaged one, and work with the customer in general. I can definitely see this being abused by certain customers as long as they give warnings prior. If they tell you, you are in danger of being banned due to returning too much, and you continue to return often, you deserve to be banned.
J Goldberg says
It takes a length of time, but if your “friend” continues his abusive shopping behavior, he’ll be dealt with eventually.
ALL activity on Amazon is analyzed, so….
DG says
Are you really such a huge fanboy of amazon that you have to defend every single banning they have ever done. Do you work for amazon? It sure is looking like that is the case.
Rooster Coburn says
an inflammatory “writing style” :p
GP says
The was not a polite response that the sent, it was a form letter. Reply to that form letter and you will receive the exact same letter again. And again. And again. There was life (and business) before Amazon. Just walk away.
December says
Which is a reason not to buy online. I prefer to see what I am buying. Too often the online pictures and descriptions are far better than the reality. Best to stick to things that are major name brands or DVD’s or books from Amazon. Get the rest locally.
Amazon Sucks says
I agree with December, what’s so convenient with Amazon anyway? I was banned and I sent them a nasty email to shove it! Retailers are a dime for 10 thousand and they are not any cheaper than any brick and mortar retailer. I can return items that don’t meet my specification or are defective. Walmart is a good alternative and with many retailers you can order online pick it up at the store, inspect it before you take it.
Gary Fish says
I purchase from Amazon because I am handicap which makes it very hard to shop at stores. Every item I purchased I intended to use and keep. Sometimes the items just does not work as advertised. Some months I purchase items more than others and sometimes I return more than usual. I really need Amazon for my shopping needs and I hope I don’t get banned.
Linda says
I’m with you Gary Fish. I’m disabled and I do 99 to 100% of my shopping on Amazon so I’m likely going to have returns in the mix. It’s so helpful to me to have the service and well worth the $99 a year, although I did hear it’s going up to $119 but that’s still worth it to me simply for the convenience. The only other things i purchase are fresh produce, milk and meats and my shopper gets that stuff for me at the local grocery store but living alone, it’s such small orders. Amazon is like the grocery store, book store, clothing store, department store, office store, tech store, hardware store, pet store and “you name it” store all wrapped into one.
Amazon Rocks says
As a seller on Amazon, this is music to my ears. Most people have no clue about how much product an Amazon seller takes a loss on due to frivolous returns. I know many sellers who have stopped offering certain products like consumer electronics, tablets, and laptops. This just drives the price up for all the honest customers. Here is a lesson that people need to understand: Don’t order an expensive sealed electronic device, open it and then return it UNLESS it is defective. Do your research BEFORE you buy. Most of the stuff that gets returned has to be liquidated at a loss. This is why I love to hear about abusive customers getting the Amazon ban hammer. These selfish people are ruining things for everyone. They are putting sellers out of business and should lose their buying privileges. Amazon should be about connecting honest buyers with honest sellers. Fewer frivolous returns will mean cheaper prices for everyone. If I know I’m going to get 30% of items returned I have to jack up my prices to at least break even. If returns go down, I can charge less and still know I’m not going to lose money. It’s really just that simple people. Be honest, be fair, don’t order 5 different brand new laptops to try them all out and then return 4 of them. That is incredibly selfish and will simply put vendors out of business unless Amazon steps in and revokes their buying privileges.
Francine says
Hi all, I am a reporter for the Toronto Star, and I am interested in speaking to posters on this thread about returns. E-mail me at [email protected] and I’ll give you the details. Francine Kopun, Business Reporter, Toronto Star.
Jay says
Well only sellers that can operate efficiently to afford to absorb these costs should survive. The point of Amazon is not to prop up sellers. If you have to raise your prices, raise them. If a competitor has a better model and does not have to raise there prices, they will live on and you won’t. If all sellers experience this and are operating at maximum efficiency, then costs will go up. Refunds and returns are simply costs.
MidwestJoe says
That is really a stupid comment. No one can operate efficiently with even 10% returns. As soon as some items are opened they lose half their value, so 10% returns would mean a loss of 5% of net from the profit margin, this could be half or a quarter of all profits.
I sell on Ebay and Amazon, and I can tell you. all the problems I have had are with Amazon buyers. there are many more window shoppers on Amazon, there are many more uninformed buyers on Amazon (buying a business IP phone and trying to plug it in to a regular telephone jack, for example), and there are many more scam buyers on Amazon.
Ebays system allow buyers ti screen sellers, and Ebay is much better at screening bad buyers themselves. It is long past due for Amazon to crack down.
My highest end items, I do not sell on Amazon, I can’t afford a $2,000 loss to a window shopper. I also sell my items on ebay for less then I do on Amazon, because the cost of doing business with Amazon buyers is higher.
bill porter says
It is our human right to return any item we have received but which does not meet our expectations , grow up Amazon and respect your customers rights !!!
Karen says
Says who?? Human right? Really???
We have a right for equality, food, water, to vote. We do not have a human right to shop on Amazon and then return whatever you want for whatever reason. LOL
Allison says
Karen,
HAHAHA…I was just thinking the same thing. I can’t stop laughing about someone thinking returning items (they willing purchased) is a HUMAN RIGHT. bahahahaha.
Chesky Ron says
Are you kidding me? Have you ever been banned at a physical store for returning items?
I shop at Target and can return whatever I want as long as those items are not damaged.
julie says
I think it is also having to pay for all of the return shipping fees which are free. I do not do prime & usually have to pay a restocking fee or I cannot return the item, thus, I do a lot of research before buying. Or I go to a physical store & get the merchandise there where it is easier to exchange/return. We do have the right to shop elsewhere.
Jay says
While it’s not a “human right” (and neither is equality, food, or water), the poster is correct that there is a legal right and a general free market principle to return items that don’t meet expectations.
S says
Thank you for stating that I think none of you but Jay know what a human right is. News flash voting is not a human right either. But Karen your just as dumb as the person your laughing at.
J Goldberg says
No, there’s no “human right” to excessively return merchandise..
There’s as also no “human right” to be allowed to buy from their site. They can ban anyone for not following their terms of use. All of this is outlined in the disclosures when you signed up.
Time to grow up….
Idiosynkrazy says
Who in their right mind reads all that tiny legal jargon
Alerter says
This J Goldberg must be an online seller who encountered problems with his buyers. As long as there has been a payment made by the buyer the buyerhas the right to expect the merchandise meets her expectation. We all have the right to receive what we pay for.
Jay says
Exactly. It amazes me what people think business think they can do just because their private. I am not saying Amazon can’t ban people, but the law is very clear that business are responsible for the item they sell meeting the advertised expectations. In other words, it IS against the law (may or may not always be enforced, largely because people don’t realize they can fight it and sometimes its hard to fight) to sell something and then deliver something else or crap.
These posters may also be interested in knowing that businesses do not have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. When you open your doors the public, you have to follow certain laws…
Jack Tyler says
Exactly! Even your comment on their supposed “right to refuse service” is spot on, it doesn’t exist. This is one of the biggest urban legends of business, that private business can refuse service to anyone. Private isn’t private when you service the public at large, and it becomes even less meaningful when you’re a publicly traded company. You can thank the civil rights act for eliminating a businesses ability to apply discretion in who they service.
Mike says
Time to shop elsewhere!!
spencer says
hail hitler!!!
Levi says
My dad and sisters have returned several items but I haven’t however I’ve requested cancellations and am currently in a tug of war mashing the cancel button because right after I accidentally ordered I tried to cancel once and it told me it couldn’t because it would ship soon when the posted date clearly said that it wouldn’t ship until Monday.
Jay says
I have always gotten the seller to cancel in these situations. They just have to review it first. The error message doesn’t mean you can’t cancel it, just that it isn’t automatic.
Rooster Coburn says
Actually, J Goldberg, you are not wrong. Sellers can refuse to issue refunds in street fairs or black market economies. Thank you for advocating for such a restrictive economic stance. Maybe you will honor us again here with your advocacy of consumer banning and now shame the consumers who choose to return merchandise. I hope you can bear in mind every seller’s business has a chance to fail in a free market economy, depending on the will of the consumer.
Joe says
It is likewise Amazon’s right to refuse to sell anything to anyone.
Jack Tyler says
I think this poster meant to say that you have the human right to seek recourse from injustices, i.e. right to seek recourse when a seller does not meet their end of the deal, which is exactly what receiving a product not described is legally. Legally, you could take Amazon to small claims every single time they sell you a defective or not described item.
Carlos Vasquez says
I try to consider both sides on the return issue, but it is hard to side with Amazon when they encourage risk-free shopping with “free returns” on items like clothing. A vast majority of Amazon customers have completely no idea that their returns are being tracked, so they often take a chance on an impulse item that really should be done in-person at a bricks & mortar retailer. Consider when you take 4 or 5 garments into a dressing room, at best maybe one of those garments meet your expectations after you actually try it on. However Amazon tries to encourage buying on items that should be done in-person with “easy, free returns”. Amazon – don’t mislead customers on that you have liberal return policies, when you have a secret CIS department lurking in the background ready to ban buyer accounts.
Linda says
Spot on, Carlos!
Deal With It Amazon says
I feel like if they can afford to give free shipping to my house for $99 a year then how can they not afford to pay for the return shipping of about 10-15% of those items back. I buy directly from Amazon and never a third party as the only two times I’ve bought from a third party I received a broken item and a falsely advertised one. I’m not buying big, heavy and expensive items, my consumption is mostly video games and blu rays with the occasional sundry item I can get using S&S. I do feel bad for the third party people getting screwed over with this process, but the Amazon direct items, they can just deal and pony up free returns. If I decide I don’t want a game or I find a better price somewhere, I should be able to return to them within my time frame like any other retailer.
J Goldberg says
No…. They don’t need to do any of those things.
They set the rules, and will enforce them as they see fit.
Just because you “feel” these things doesn’t mean they’re destined to become reality.
spencer says
you are a filthy kike!!! hitler should have finished your race off, we didn’t know at the time that he was actually correct in what he was doing
Andi says
Spencer, I completely disagree with J Goldberg, but I feel there is no need to bring his heritage and antisemitism into this. That’s disgusting and you should be ashamed. There are plenty of people from every race and religion that are greedy, rude and pompous. And you sir, just might be one as well.
ibgibbs says
When I first started reading the article I felt bad for those who got banned. However, if the attacks on Goldberg are any proof of who they are,
these boys show Amazon proved to have impeccable taste and showed excellent judgment in banning them.
Jay says
That’s not entirely true Goldberg. While I agree with the *spirit* of your comments and the terms and conditions amazons sets being enforceable, if they were to refuse a return or treat it differently than other returns because of “excessive returns” but all the excessive returns were well documented and could be proven legitimate, then the law would require amazon to honor that refund without any specific restrictions.
Anne says
J Goldberg, and THAT’S EXACTLY WHY THE MEDIA IS NOW GETTING INVOLVED! This is going to turn into a big ole’ negative story about the Giant Monopoly known as Amazon refusing us poor little consumers our returns when we need to return something. I don’t hold a position on the matter, but watch and see, the media will take hold of this story and their stock price will fall for a bit just like it did with FB when they had their privacy troubles and it’ll be a great buying opportunity for those who want to purchase stock in their company. It may just work out for all of us! Wouldn’t that be great?
Max says
I didn’t realize there is a return limit and that it can cause you to get banned. Something I’ve loved about Amazon is how convenient returns are. Some items are just impossible to know if they will work for you or not, so how can you not do returns? For example, I’m trying to buy some nice headphones and audio quality is subjective. The only way I can know if I like a set of headphones is to actually listen to them. I’m about to return a pair that I’m not satisfied with so I can try a different model (in hopes) it is the sound I’m looking for. I can understand Amazon cracking down on returns that are falsely identified as defective. But if I am paying the shipping/restocking fee, I should be able to return anything I want within the return window. If Amazon is losing money, then they need to increase the restocking fee to make up for it. Now I’m paranoid to use one of Amazon’s best features (simple returns) and it makes me wonder if I need to start shopping at local stores again.
DOESN'TMATTER says
just read this Yeah, the headphone thing and cpu thing. So they want to keep 2 crashed cpus and expensive, unsuABLE headphones. Right, Have a vision problem so I USE aMAMZON it when I can. Not driving to the store, I’d have them bring food it it was doable/afforable. I hope BeSoz reads this. 15 year customer Prime. Quite telling me to watch videos and other useless stuff and sell me my music, don’t want to rent IT. I need stuff right the first time. Quit PROMOTING fake reviews ( with free samples to them) instead and rettrrns will go own as a whole for the co. Don’t seLL me bum CPUs THAT DIE IN A MONTH and don’t bait and switch me from Amazon to X company during the checkout. Really,.
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Brian B says
It’s tempting to shop from Amazon due to their enormously extensive inventory and highly competitive price if you look hard enough, and the temptation can increase if you have their prime membership, but it does seem like we all need to be careful with Amazon as what they are doing is putting on an illusion of easy returns and yet they are unofficially warning the mass with blogs like this and numerous forum threads where people rant about having been banned. I even heard that when they ban you they will also ban the people who you sent gifts to so that means BY GETTING BANNED YOU COULD END UP GETTING YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES AND FAMILY WHO DON’T LIVE AT YOUR HOUSEHOLD, which doesn’t seem fair nor reasonable. Personally, I do think universal life time ban is excessive. I wish ban is proportional to the severity of their return or whatever policy abuse they deem in their eyes. Perhaps one to few years ban based how many returns you made could be within reason. Personally, I think I should shop around more instead of shopping at Amazon, and I think Amazon’s strict policy of life time ban will reduce their sale by making people to shop around which is not good for their revenue. Amazon should clarify what the return limit is.
yesenia says
Now, your last statement I agree with, that retailers should be up front, clear and specific about their return limits. It would save so much time and headache.
Opinions says
And it would tell abusers exactly how much they can abuse without getting banned.
Rooster Coburn says
What human is abused after selling an item and then receiving the item back? It seems harmless.
Christine says
I spent a lot on amazon throughout the years. This year at xmas more than normal amount of gift i bought were not as wanted as i thought theyd be. Amazon cancelled my acct. I dont blame them completely. But their listed return policy makes you feel as though you should come on in and not worry. Nov 1st through jan. 31st. Returns are welcome. Well. That isnt the case. I even spent the 99.00 this year for prime. (first time in 5 years with amazon)
I understood when i had been banned that it was due to those xmas returns. I tried reaching out to amazon to explain im no 50 and my children are w5 to 30. That i may have lost grasp as to what they like for xmas. That I’d likely send cash and let them do as they pleased from now on. That i had a 5 year relationship with them. That i was a prime member and very much like the 3 fire tvs I have and tge orograming that orime gives. That i have an amazon credit card. Etc. In the end amazon was very firm. I am no longer allowed to purchase.
Over the last 5 years my return levels where never as extreme. In the end i used my prime acct for 3 months and amazon kept every penny of it. I cant imagine they lisy 99 in 3 months. Plus id been with them for 5 years. I feel a bit used. Considering when i started shopping with them they where a much smaller. And needed me and many more like me to become as large as they have become. To my defense. All the moneys from the returns were reused on amazon for gifts my children would like before the acct was closed. And to be fair amazon said i could return the 3 fire tvs. I did not return th fire tvs but they did offer.
Really a shame though.I felt like I had been a good customer to them for over 5 years.
Rakitic says
Amazon wouldn’t have banned your account if you had paid for the return shipping. It is obviously that you abused the system and Amazon reserves the right to discontinue the service.
Rooster Coburn says
Again, abuse is not the proper word for conducting a return. I’m sure actual victims of abuse would want you to be corrected, comparing the horrors they have suffered to a customer service return. Boo!
pundith says
Christine, for the benefit of those who haven’t been banned, what percentage of your purchases did you return, what was the dollar amount of your returns, and how many returns did you do, if you don’t mind sharing that info? I think Amazon prime mebership can be a trap. It makes you buy more which can increase your return, and you can get banned for life. I think we all really need to reduce our puchasea from Amazon, or Amazon needs to relax their “unofficial” policy. Apply life time ban to those who steal, but lesser issues, few months to few years of ban is more within reason. I think current life time ban policy for all problem customers will hurt Amazon down the road, as there are companies such as Jet trying to compete with Amazon.
Anne says
pundith, Walmart just acquired Jet.com for $3 billion dollars. So, Jet has Walmart helping them along and the competition strengthens…
J Goldberg says
Your length of membership is irrelevant, as are the endless excuses.
When your behavior consistently erodes their profit margins, you’re no longer “needed”
Mike says
Amazon Employee….
yesenia says
I’d say more than just an employee.
Jeff Bozo says
I don’t think he is an employee. Amazon would never tolerate their employees abusing customers. If he is indeed an employee, he won’t be for long.
Smallxrum says
You’re such a troll, dude. How much is Amazon paying you to defend them?
ibgibbs says
Leave your emotions and your ” confrontational attitude” aside, boys. They won’t really help you in today’s real world.. Amazon is a business and a very efficient one. It’s the direction the world is taking. Competition is international… is fierce…. and there is no room to let your guards down for any reason. We have become numbers. That is how I read what Goldberg is saying. Good advice… you would benefit from listening to it and applying it to your lives.
Anne says
Goldberg, you kinda sound like you’re talking about a country club…
Jay says
Wait a while and send them a detailed email explaining what you said here (well written) and then list each item returned and why. They are more likely to approve an appeal after time. Appealing the day you get banned isn’t productive as probably everyone that gets banned does that.
PLY says
I got banned twice. Didn’t even return anything the second time. Amazon can shove it. I can get anything on eBay that they’ve have and a lot of times cheaper.
Singhk says
To Christone, if you don’t mind, what was your return rate, what was the approximate dollar value of your returns, and how many returns were they for the benefits of current Amazon shoppers? It seems to me Amazon Prime Membersip can be a trap. It makes you buy more from Amazon which can increase your return, and you can be banned for life. Unless if it is for theft, I think better policy wilbe to ban for several months to several years or refuse returns. I don’t think Banning everyone they don’t find profitable for life is good for Amazon’s business. It will make people to reduce their shopping at Amazon. There are aspiring companies trying to compete with Amazon who don’t ban people for life.
Bob says
A trap it is. I ended up buying more after Prime, but unfortunately more “discount” items that just had a higher failure rate. Amazon made money off of me for the first 10 years, and they may have lost money in that last month but I was basically a customer for life. Didn’t seem like a smart decision but there are other options like Jet.com
J Goldberg says
Actually, research has established that problem buyers don’t change their habits, so a lifetime ban is indeed appropriate.
Alerter says
TROLL ALERT! TROLL ALERT! Do not respond to this troll J Goldberg.
Singhk says
What research?
Mike says
EBay….Jet…..
M Lesnar says
Hey Goldberg where’s a source for that? Show us the source that research shows problem buyers don’t change their habit. Let’s see it. You claim all this bullcrap with no facts to back it up. You’re a troll and a bad one at that.
spencer says
KIKE aLERT!!!! this jgoldberg is filthy zionist scum
lolthisguy says
hey spencer, do the world a favor and kill yourself, you nazi
Amazon Shopper says
Christine
Bob says
A trap it is. I ended up buying more after Prime, but unfortunately more recently “discount” items that just had a higher failure rate. Amazon made money off of me for the first 10 years, and they may have lost money in that last month. Didn’t matter that I spent double the money right after my bad luck streak. I was basically a customer for life and it didn’t seem like a smart decision but there are other options like Jet.com. The ban is based off a computer algorithm and CIS is operating off a script.
J Goldberg says
It WAS indeed smart of them to revoke your buying privileges.
You admit to buying only heavily discounted items, all shipped for free.. then
so many of them, enough to eliminate the sliver of profit that remained.
Don’t be surprised when you face a similar fate with similar retailers, as trends indicate they’re soon to follow Amazon’s lead…
Alerter says
TROLL ALERT! TROLL ALERT! Do not respond to this troll J Goldberg.
Mike says
You wish….
I return items to Best Buy once a month….no lifetime ban there….retailers following suite….who?? examples please??!
spencer says
i will make you my lampshade, jew filth!
Jean aldrich says
Spencer is and ignorant person raised by wolves in the woods that should have washed his mouth out with SOAP!
Kenny says
F**k Amazon!
Singhk says
Bob, did you get banned?
I bought 160 items and returned about 40. I guess I should be careful? A lot of my returns were clothes that had free return marks for prime members, and I’m a prime member. No warning email and customer service says my account is in good standing though. I’d like to know if returning free return items sold directly by Amazon counts against your account if anyone has an opinion. I never bought two sizes with the intent to return the one that doesn’t fit.
J Goldberg says
When you return 25% of what you buy, it’s clear YOU are the problem here, not the merchandise or the retailer.
“Free returns” were NOT intended to be abused, and yes, all buyer and seller activity is tracked and monitored.
Amazon didn’t get to the top by being foolish; they’re doing all this for good reason.
Susie says
maybe you should stop sucking Amazons c–k
yesenia says
See, there are plenty of honest customers here, J Goldberg. We all honestly think you should suck your own!
nybye says
yes you all have no shame in telling how much you abuse the system!
Alerter says
TROLL ALERT! TROLL ALERT! Do not respond to this troll J Goldberg. He’s trying to start a forum fight.
Singhk says
To J Golberg: Was I blaming Amazon for my returns???? I simply said I should be careful meaning to buy less from Amazon and shop around more so it will be less like I need to return to Amazon, and buy less overall. I can see that you’re probably a seller who had issues with your buyers, but please do not generalize people into problem buyers and make inflammatory comments.
justin says
Dude you are really a piece of shit. Everyone knows it is common practice to try on 3 or 4 pairs of jeans and keep 1 that fits best. That is a 75% return rate. It has been what people who shop in the mall do for decades, that’s what changing rooms are for dickhead. For a great many online clothing retailers, the same is basically expected. This is trivial because, unlike returns of electronics which must be sold at a huge discount because they are contaminated, garments are expected to be fully resellable as new. But apparently Amazon hasn’t gotten the concept through their heads or doesn’t have the professionalism to warn their customers they do clothing DIFFERENT than any clothing businesses and customers should beware lest they **** their accounts which have pristine records on purchases for tons of books, electronics, etc. that they never return. Amazon are being **** douchebags and thank god for informative sites like this I realized I need to stop immediately buying anything “risky” from Amazon ever again. No clothes. No electronics that aren’t from a top tier maker. No Chinese made shit. And nothing from 3rd parties that send me fake shit like these goddamn Gucci glasses frames for $178 that are fake as hell and now going to cause me to risk getting banned and losing access to 12 years of Audible audiobooks.
Anon says
Well said, Justin! Please keep posting here often..because we need more people to speak up for us..instead of Amazon employees like Goldberg who defends EVERYTHING this company does.
Jacques David Goldberg says
David, we operate in a free market..where consumers and merchants are both empowered with CHOICES.
Wise consumers won’t continue to patronize a merchant whose wares or services are unsatisfactory.
Conversely, wise merchants won’t continue to conduct business with those who’ve established a record of eroding their return of investment.
It’s amusing watching so many people desperately clamor for months on end to be allowed re-entry to a business they’ve had such horrible experiences with.
I haven’t shopped Amazon in fifteen years. There are better options,
While it’s clear you enjoy your role as a perpetually victimized and dissatisfied customer, no retailer is obligated to subsidize it. They’ve moved on, and now it’s your turn.
Perhaps Walmart would be a better fit for you and your ilk.
Jacques David Goldberg says
Too funny. Almost…
I don’t shop at, or work for Amazon.
No need for that.
I’m speaking as a shareholder, and from an investment standpoint they’ve performed remarkably well.
I’ve no interest in buying or selling the sort of cheap or gimmicky or counterfeit things they’re known for.
Again, it’s all about making better choices.
nybye says
you simply retarded and needs to get banned from buying anything from private companys unless your father will verify your sanity and respect for other peoples money and time!
But it seems to me you never had a father to tell you about right and wrong and not least respect for other people and their buisiness!
Anne says
nybye: Why is it that in so many of these discussions and forums there always has to be the nastiest and most mean evil people I’ve ever heard in my life. Do you realize that your comment is indelible? Do you even know what that means? It means it’s on here, on the web, FOREVER. That horrible comment you made about Goldberg not having a father is completely inexcusable because even if that were the case, do you think that would be his fault? That is simply something a blacktop school bully would say in perhaps the 5th grade, and since you posted on this thread, I have to assume you’re older than 11, despite acting only 11 years old. And do you realize that it’s socially unacceptable now to use the word retarded in labeling a person? We have other language that’s has been deemed appropriate for describing a person who is mentally challenged. It sounds to me like you’re the one that needs to pay a visit to your father and ask him to teach you manners and teach you respect and teach you how to have a proper debate without name calling, and most of all, teach you right from wrong. Because you are way off base here and you are definitely WRONG in spouting off as you did.
Joe says
Justin, maybe you are unaware of the fact that Amazon has to pay the shipping to and from you- quite different than walking into an Old Navy and returning 75% of what you purchased. 75% returns on anything should be expected?? LOL! If so. Amazon, and all clothing etailers for that matter, would have been out of business a long time ago..
seaman stains says
So you are ANOTHER fat lazy cunt that can’t off his oversized arse and go to a shop to try clothes on? Instead like a cheapskate wanker he sits on his fat oversized arse and buys clothes online and just sends back stuff his fat lazy arse wont fit in, sound like another lazy dick to me.
John says
This isn’t true, buying clothes is different, most clothing retailers allow free returns. Amazon mustn’t understand the industry if that’s the case. Either way, Amazon is more expensive than a lot of retailers. Don’t really see the point in it.
Mike says
Be careful….you and your family are about to be banned…..easy returns!!!
Too big for its own good says
My account was closed. I returned a lot of electronic items that that were damaged. All was explained in the descriptions when required. Also, I contacted amazon customer service – four times – regarding the issue of consistently receiving faulty devices. Four times I received a reply that stated “we have no comment on the issue”. They claim I violated the terms and conditions, but there is no clear limit on returning damaged items, and nothing was ever returned out side of the allotted dates, all packing was always included, and a clear explanation was supplied. There were items I received that were slightly damaged that I kept, because the damage was minor, but those times when I called to complain, I was encouraged by the reps to return the item as well. Fortunately I have found a light at the end of the tunnel. There are many other great retailers that actually sell the same items for less. Amazons return policy was one of their biggest advantages for me, but they are by far the not cheapest. And in my case not at all as convenient as they seem. I consider them closing the account as a favor to me. I am more aware of how I spend my money. But I do think they need to either change their policy, and reinstate some of the accounts they have closed. There is a very dark side to amazon. And if they are willing to treat their employees like trash – I’m to some recent articles I read – why would they not treat their customers the same way?
Singhk says
I think Amazon has two options:
1) Make their return policy more stringent and lose customers they have not banned.
2) Keep the “officially” generous return policy as is, ban whoever they feel is costing them more than profiting them.
I think option 1 will be more profitable in terms of revenue for a business. However, as words get around about Amazon’s “unofficially” stringent policy of life-time ban, I think it will cost Amazon one way or another eventually down the road. Again, I do think life-time is excessive, and should be applied only to those who steal. I hope Amazon will consider limited ban such as several months to several years of ban in other cases. If not, I personally will be much more selective about what I buy from Amazon resulting in buying less from Amazon.
brian says
I just got my account closed on Amazon. I think I’m a bit the opposite of all the other experiences I’ve read in terms of reaction. I saw it coming, and I know it’s my fault, and I should have adjusted the the way I was utilizing the return system for Amazon. If anything the only issue I see is the fact that Amazon says people are violating policy, but there is no written policy about the amount of return frequency allowed. If they were to say something about it, I think a lot of customers would stop abusing it. I received an email more than once that my account would be looked at because of excessive returns. The only reason I didn’t change my actions was because when I responded the account specialist told me that my account was not in jeopardy of being closed and to continue with my normal practices. I think I misinterpreted what the specialist meant. I think it did not mean I should go back to making excessive returns, but should adjust myself and for now I’m not in jeopardy. Really, it’s my fault.
Other than that the only gripe I have is the fact that Amazon who is the “most customer centric company” in the world has no systems in place for a person to get some kind of good explanation from a real person over the phone. All you get is generic scripted emails regardless of what you say. I asked about the policy, and got a generic email. I then asked another question and got a different version of the same email.
Opinions says
There is no reason to spend money on a real person to talk to a customer who can no longer buy from them.
Rooster Coburn says
It sounds like you had good intentions and were responsible. It really sucks they didn’t make it right for you. Glad you found a better price elsewhere.
Singhk says
Hi Brian, if Amazon gave you warning email more than one time, then that’s whole lot better than getting your account closed with no warning which is what a lot of people seem to have complained about.
Hopefully Amazon is changing their approach when banning people. If they are going to ban for life, giving warning in advance does make the ban approach more fair.
Brian says
True. I think what annoyed me is that an auto generated email doesn’t give enough detail to really address what the problem is. Amazon has no stated policy on return ratios. Yet the auto generated email says that I was making excessive returns which is against their policy. Then the email tells me to go to a link where I find no information. I emailed the representative back and this was his reply, ” Your account will remain open and is not at risk of being closed at this time. We will continue to welcome your returns within our posted returns policy.”
This made me think that I was okay and in no danger of being closed. However, I did alter my practices to return less. For example my final 15 orders I returned 4. They were all clothing items that are labeled as, “free returns”. I’m still accepting of the ban though, I’m going to save a lot of money in the long run. I would say 80-90% of my orders were purchased because of a deal and not because I was looking for the item I bought.
Singhk says
Brian, I think you just shared an important piece of info that tells you can be banned for returning clothings, shoes marked as “free return” and sold directly by Amazon. There are those who think returning free returns sold by Amazon won’t count against you.
If you don’t mind, just how much were your returns percentage-wise and dollar amount-wise? I’m asking so readers can get some feel for a possible threshold Amazon doesn’t disclose. That way I and readers can shop more prudently. Thanks again for any info you share.
Brian says
Well I’ll go through my last 15 orders and my last 6 months and give an idea along with an item type break down.
I can still log in on my phone for some reason even though the account is banned.
Out of the preceding 15 orders I returned 3 items.
Out of the preceding 6 months I ordered 98 items and returned 38.
So that is 38.8% of my orders were returned.
Of that 38%, almost 80% were clothes that we’re “free returns”, which I have no idea what that means but at the time assumed meant I could order freely and return freely for any reason. At one point I was ordering and returning many clothing items to stock up for winter as I am temporarily in Idaho but am from California. I think I returned 5 pairs of boots back to back all of which were free returns. I went a bit crazy thinking that the return policy was almost the same as trying on in the store. My fault.
The other returns were random items that were either faulty or I simply did not like.
Singhk says
Hi Brian, thanks for sharing. 38.8% return doesn’t seem that much especially if a lot of those were clothing. (I guess I need to stop returning clothing that doesn’t fit me right and just take the loss?) What was the dollar amount of your returns like if you don’t mind sharing?
I assume you’re not able to make purchases when you log into Amazon on your phone? I assume before you bought Amazon Prime membership, your Amazon purchases were a lot less, and returns a lot less as well?
Jana says
This is certainly not an attack on Brian. He realizes how he got here and is doing us all a favor by putting it out in the open to help us make better decisions – Thanks, Brian!
That being said, 38.8% returns does sound like a lot to me since we’re talking about Amazon and third-party vendors eating the shipping costs on 38 items in 6 months. Even if every item he returned was in new and resalable condition, Amazon et al. probably paid at least $100 in shipping costs for items that ended up back in its inventory. Note: I used Amazon to run pseudo-orders and found that ordering 10 items could bring the shipping down to about $3 per order plus $1 per additional item on average, if you have more t-shirts than hiking boots in the order (Amazon charges $5.50 to ship one pair of boots, so even if they actually only pay $4 for shipping plus the box, that’s still $8 per return x 5 returns for $40, and then there are still 33 items returned). If the orders were heavier or more frequent, shipping costs go up from there. For the 60 items Brian kept, I estimate that Amazon probably spent about $60 in shipping (one-way), which they consider part of the cost of business.
Without knowing the actual per item profit (since Brian tended to buy deals rather than items at or very near the MSRP) and actual shipping costs, it’s hard to say how much money Amazon made from Brian during those 6 months. At an average price of $40 reflecting 20% gross profit, Amazon would net $320 for the 98 items (60 purchases and 38 non-purchases). At an average price of $20 reflecting 15% gross profit, Amazon would net $20. At $16 and 15%, Amazon would lose $16. So it really depends on whether Brian’s orders were more of the $80-$120 shoes and power tools variety or the $12 t-shirts and books variety, and presumably that’s what Amazon’s automated formula takes into account.
Hypothetical numbers aside, I think all parties would be better served if Amazon was more clear about the policy. There is no warning on the website that the “free return” policy is not to be treated as a “buy it and try it” opportunity but rather as a safeguard against occasional problems with sizing, color-matching, poor product description, etc. On the one hand, it’s irresponsible for customers to overuse the free return option (such as ordering 10 pairs of shoes with the intent of keeping only 1 or 2, especially if they are ordered, shipped, and returned one at a time at Amazon’s expense). On the other hand, Amazon could reduce this problem by at least informing customers that they risk losing their account if the cost of providing free returns becomes too costly. Better yet, Amazon could place a limit on the number of free returns a customer can make (e.g., Free returns are limited to 10 items per customer per year, or 20 items per household address per year, whichever occurs first).
Further, I think it’s disingenuous for Amazon to emphasize free returns to intentionally attract customers or encourage additional purchases (what other purpose could the policy serve?) and then secretly hold it against customers who use the policy more than Amazon intended. Amazon calls it abuse, but the existence of this discussion demonstrates that customers don’t know where the line is between using free returns and abusing free returns, and it’s entirely because Amazon does not disclose the policy. And the reason Amazon doesn’t disclose the policy is because they would lose some of their competitive value. They want customers to feel like it’s as safe to shop there as it is to shop at a brick and mortar store where you can see/touch/try on the item without risk. It’s not a lie (the returns are free after all), but it is misleading: there is a widely unknown risk (I didn’t know about a potential ban until I stumble onto this page) that customers should be able to take into consideration when comparing Amazon with their competitors for a specific purchase. Now that I know, it’s smarter for me to only buy known items from Amazon and be very careful about trying anything new through them.
I live in the Dallas, TX area, and I’ve tried for 6 weeks to find a store that sells any of the running shoes I want (and this is after trying on 15 other alternatives that I hoped to buy instead but couldn’t get a comfortable fit, and I’m not paying $130 for shoes that I hope will become comfortable once I’ve put 50 miles on them when I know my last 6 pairs were comfortable right out of the box). No luck. So I look online and Amazon is usually the best price for me, plus free returns if these shoes that I’ve never tried on don’t fit (they are new models, so they may not fit like my old pair, even though I’ve read every review I can find and used the little sizing charts and fit wizards on the manufacturers’ websites). So here I am, having ordered 2 pairs and planning to return 1 pair because they are much too narrow despite being officially the same length and width as the other pair from the same manufacturer. I also ordered 2 more pairs ((and yes, I do intend to keep all 3 if both of the new pairs fit because I like to rotate my shoes). But now I learn that I might have been better off ordering from someone who does charge for returns because if these don’t fit and I end up returning 3 out of 4 pairs in one month, I could lose my account even though I’ve only returned 3 other items in the last 10 years (yep, also shoes, for the same reasons). Hopefully, that’s not enough to trigger a ban, but it has only been 2 years since those returns, and I’m not a high-volume or high-price shopper, so I really don’t know how the percentage works out for me. I would really hate to lose access to their inventory when most of what I buy are things that don’t require a specific fit and would be hard to imagine returning. Still, if the $85 shoes are uncomfortable the moment I put them on my feet, it would be hard to eat that cost just so I could order the occasional book, earbuds, etc. After all, I chose Amazon because they offer free returns and I don’t want to be stuck with $85 shoes that don’t fit, and Amazon offers free returns because they want me to choose them when trying something new (I wouldn’t need free returns if I knew the shoes would fit). So am I abusing the free returns, or is that what free returns are for? I guess we’ll find out.
At least Brian’s wife is happy. :=)
nybye says
almost 40% return!!
Every online buyer should despise you and demand you banned from doing anymore cost raising terror against online sellers and their honest customers!
Opinions says
Doesn’t seem like much?? Amazon paid over $100 on his returns from the last 6 months alone. Reminder: that’s more than the YEARLY prime membership cost in half the duration.
Brian, thank you for sharing your experience but I agree with Amazon (and with you). That is an unreasonable amount of returns in such a short period. I don’t think it matters how much you buy without returning. I think it’s just a cost – benefit analysis.
B Miller says
“Hi Brian, thanks for sharing. 38.8% return doesn’t seem that much especially if a lot of those were clothing.”
Come on! Damn near 40% returns doesn’t seem like that much? So Clothing merchants should expect somewhere near this? I assume that’s why you said “Especially if a lot of those were clothing”
He returned boots 4 times, that costs in excess of $15 per incident one way! $15 x 8 = $120 in “free” shipping alone! The cost of goods will eventually be impossible to meet if this kind of nonesense keeps going. Increasing shipping costs and the belief by retailers that this is required to aquire the sale is what will kill ecommerce. Brick and Morter only has to survive another decade before ecommerce dies because it’s driven out of the market by costs.
Anne says
B Miller: Why on Earth would you need Brian to share the dollar amount of his purchases? You have all the info you need with him telling you it was 38.8% (nearly 39%) of his 98 items purchased, in other words, over 1/3 of all the items he purchased in the previous 6 months (pretty excessive, but with good reason as he explained). Dollar amount does not even come into play here at all. Apparently you need to stay under one third in order to keep your account open. Sounds logical to me. They have realized there’s an issue with their clothing and that’s why they’ve started the “Try before you Buy” program. If you order 7 eligible clothing items, you receive them free, you send back what doesn’t fit and they charge your card for the rest, free shipping both ways. They have realized that many people want to try on at least 3 different sizes of the same jeans. For example, most people want to try their typical size, the size below and the size above if it’s a style they’ve never worn before. So….they are working on the clothing and they’re stepping up the size charts as well. They use a generic size chart which differs significantly from many of the merchant’s clothing lines.
Anne says
Singhk…38.8% is nearly 40% which is pretty darn close to 50% or half, did I mention HALF of everything he purchased? It’s a lot, it’s a ton, in fact. But he understands how it happened. Someone made a very useful comment way back in the thread that in lieu of BANNING someone for life, these repeat returners should have a 20% restocking fee applied to their returns, at the very least that would hopefully more than double the Amazon Prime membership for Amazon. And I would bet the price of a Prime membership that if a 20% or 25% restocking fee were imposed on the repeat returners items, they wouldn’t return half the stuff they do. Maybe Amazon should think of that because banning someone for life does no good for either party. The banned person will tell all his friends and family and they may discontinue their memberships and Amazon loses out on often long term loyal customers. There should be a middle ground here somewhere as 40% returns is excessive but so is banning for life. If only they could meet in the middle somewhere!
Brian says
Oh yes, I was added onto my Father’s account on prime, so it was free for me. A group of us were on the same account. Luckily we’re all in different addresses and states, so it doesn’t seem to have affected his account. I bought way less before prime.
Yes I can log in on my phone and look at any information including orders, but I can’t on the computer it just keeps saying wrong password, which I guess is characteristic of Amazon bans. I only want to get back in to see my rather extensive wish list to remind myself of items I was going to get.
As far as prices. I would say that only once or twice was the item more than a hundred. I’m too lazy to go and look but I either returned shirts, jackets, or shoes. Along with other $15-30 dollar items. So I would say the largest portion was 15-30 dollar returns with the rest being under a hundred but a bit more expensive.
In other words majority were under 100 dollar items.
..and yes I just get an error on my phone if I try to make a purchase. Truthfully, it’s been awesome, my online shopping addiction was forcefully broken. I’ve bought 2 items since the ban online, my wife’s really happy about the reduction in frivolous expenditures.
dman says
What happens to your past kindle books or audible audiobook purchases you paid for? I find it interesting that no one has mentioned this glaring concern. It would seem to be lawsuit worthy material for amazon to effectively steal those from you by denying continued access to these.
Tuan Do says
The ban won’t affect your digital purchases. You will still be able to access your book or movie library.
Old Poor Richard says
Only with devices already registered before your account is cancelled. If you replace your phone, your digital purchase are gone because you can’t log in to register a new device. They’re stealing from people, basically.
J Goldberg says
Compulsive and excessive returning is a key cyclical component of shopping addiction, and left unchecked, will only escalate until enough damage has been done to where the addict decides to take action.
Singhk says
Brian,
IMHO, your return rate doesn’t seem excessive in dollar amount nor in percentage. I’m not clear why you got banned. Was the returns only issue, or did you ask amazon customer services for concession such as partial discount for any items having defects/blemishes, or after sale price matches, or were you paying for most of your purchases using amazon gift card? Did you make any complaints to Amazon customer service or bought items in large bulks repeatedly?
If your issue was only the returns, it sounds like your return issues didn’t last too long since you seemed to have started returning a lot after you got on your dad’s prime membership. However, I’m not sure how you were able to be put on your dad’s prime membership because amazon allows sharing prime membership with family members living at same household at one address. If at different address, amazon doesn’t allow sharing prime membership.
J Goldberg says
Amazon doesn’t base it’s business decision on YOUR “opinions”….
Jana says
Well, I base my business decisions on my opinions. If Amazon chooses not to provide a clear definition of the line between using free returns as intended and abusing free returns, I have to rely on my own judgment. In my opinion, Amazon offers free returns because they want you to feel confident in buying an item that you haven’t tried before or from a vendor whose authenticity/quality is unknown to you (otherwise, I wouldn’t need free returns and would base my purchases solely on price). While I do think 40% returns is too high, I’m still left guessing on where Amazon draws the line, so all I can do is shop honestly, use the free returns in a manner I consider fair to both parties, and hope Amazon’s formula agrees.
And now that I’ve argued with a troll, it’s time to quit the internet for today.
Singhk says
I know that, and so do everyone else. No need to interject YOUR OPINION.
Amazon Buyer & Seller says
A 40% return rate is very high. It’s understandable with items like clothing, but still high and that’s why I don’t buy clothing online. If it doesn’t fit, which it’s very likely not to, you have to pay return shipping. For those with amazon prime I guess amazon pays the return shipping. They should really make it a little more clear that buyers can’t abuse the system or even pull back a little on how freely they take returns.
However as a 3rd party seller on amazon I am glad to see they actually do something about buyers who return too much. Sellers are held to super strict standards and will be banned if we get too many a-z claims, neg or neutral feedback, ship late, too many refunds, ect. Except our % have to be MUCH lower. A mere 1% a-z claim for orders, 2.5% order cancel rate, 4% late shipment rate. For refunds they don’t state a % but if it gets high we can be banned for that. Each and every buyer return is a refund that counts against us.
Not to mention the lost money. My products are under $15 with free shipping. Each buyer that changes their mind, accidental order, claims defective in order to get free return shipping, doesn’t measure or read size, or finds a similar item for a better price and returns it I have to eat at least $4 for fees and shipping (assuming the buyer pays postage as more and more often it’s under paid and arrives postage due). Plus the packaging usually needs replaced and sometimes it’s returned 1-2 months later with signs of use. Yes we can choose to charge 20% restock fee but that risks the buyer opening an a-z or leaving negative feedback, which too many will get you banned.
Then there are products we ship to amazon that they fulfill. My return rate is much higher on those for people changing their mind because they have easy amazon returns and possibly free return shipping from amazon. Each product has to be shipped back to me for a fee, inspected and repackaged. Sometimes thrown away if it’s too damaged. Amazon needs to be more restrictive with their return policy.
Anne says
Wow! Amazon Buyer & Seller, just reading your post gave me the answer I was looking for! For a long time I thought maybe I’d become a seller on Amazon, but that sounds like a massive uphill battle, a huge undertaking, and one you have little to no control over. I feel badly for you as I had no idea it was that involved and detailed. Thanks very much for sharing. Hopefully it will make the general public more aware before they decide to randomly return an item.
jack says
can i use this method to buy again from amazon?
like move to new apartment and change internet service provider
and only use giftcard with fake name?
Tuan Do says
Absolutely you can, Amazon won’t know it’s you as long as you don’t use the same card number and billing address.
J Goldberg says
You’d need to legally change your name and seek asylum in Eastern Europe….
It’s a moot point though, as you’ll surely repeat the cycle that got you banned in the first place, and…..surprise! You’ll be banned again..
zach says
Has anyone had their return DENIED? Or are accounts only closed AFTER your last return?
yesenia says
Yes, I know of someone whose final 3 returns were denied.
F**ckAmazon says
In that case do a credit card charge back. Works every time.
Joe says
Eventually your credit card provider will start to side with the seller on your chargeback claims as well. Thieves fit a predictable pattern- especially in the digital age- this is not lost on Amex or MasteCard either..
Rooster Coburn says
I don’t think characterizing people who conduct Amazon returns as thieves or abusers is accurate.
LarryE says
I’ve been shopping at Amazon for over 10 years and I’ve purchased around 300 items. In all this time, I’ve only returned 3 or 4 items. Most recently 2 different pairs of Bluetooth earbuds that stopped working after 1 week.
I’m around 1% return rate. I can even understand 10% return rate if you buy knock-off or odd items. But 50%??? Really? You can give all the anecdotal cases you want, but if you are spending that much time repacking and returning items, you’d me hard pressed to convince me ALL those items were being returned legitiamately.
Rooster Coburn says
Maybe it is the inconsistency and arbitrary nature of Amazon’s account ban that explains the disharmony consumers are reporting.
For whom the bell tolls says
These company’s(all company’s, for that matter, are for profit ) If you dip into their profit ,they will get rid of you. They are not there to let you test things,use things, or damage and play with things- go to a store and do that, and PAY MORE! Welcome to reality.
kirtdp says
I have returned a total of two items in the last several years (small ticket items). After I read the article about Amazon.com banning people who return too many items, I decided to take the hit and never return anymore items in the future. As for big ticket items, I will shop locally for my protection. I was stunned that they would resort to this type of harsh treatment of their customers’ who keep them in business. Unfortunately, if you do not want to get banned do not return any damn thing! And I mean any damn thing!
Anne says
kirtdp, oh please. Don’t be so dramatic. Does that sound realistic to you? It surely doesn’t sound realistic to me.
c0rr0sive says
Kirt,
There’s far more to the story than the author knows, nor do most here in the comments know. Amazon doesn’t mind the occasional return…
What’s getting people banned isn’t just a high return rate. Everything returned goes through multiple stages to decide what happens to it, if you have a high volume of things that end up having to be liquidated, or state that it’s the wrong item when it’s the right item often… Well…
Then you have people that say that they was sent the wrong product, who obviously replaced the product with a fake, or heavily used item in the right box…
Some of the worst are $1000+ computer components and electronics, returns on those are high for no reason, and many times they are fradulent returns (item not in box, fake item in box, and so on). The people doing that don’t realize that absolutely everything that appears to have been opened is tested fully.
The only reason this is happening is because the theft is a lot worse than most people realize and it’s eating into a company that is out there to make money.. I am sure a few innocent customers are getting caught up with the bans, and I feel sorry for them. Hopefully one day, Amazon can figure something better out, or people stop trying to scam others.
Dayle Hudson says
My returns to qvc have been clothes and shoes that didn’t fit It’s there sizeing. 6-8 10-12. I am an eight in slacks, jeans, etc. A Ten on top. Six won’t fit. Twelve won’t fit. I wish they would just do sizes singlely.
JR says
I buy a LOT of things off Amazon, and between prime music and echo and their credit card we are an Amazon house. Before prime I never bought clothes on amazon, but since I became a member I have done so on occasion. While you can never be certain something will fit, their “free returns” policy made these purchases seem risk free and I started to change my buying habits. Not anymore. These stories are too worrisome. I think the best policy is DON’T BY CLOTHES OR SHOES FROM AMAZON! This should protect most people. Back to brick and mortar for those items that need a fitting room.
seaman stains says
Seriously dude, what kind of a lazy f**** buys clothes without trying them them on in a fitting room before hand? There really are some lazy shits around these days.
ShopSmartShopS-Mart says
I have not been banned yet, but reading this article has me paranoid. I do return a lot of stuff – most of the time it’s because of trying to get cheaper pricing from a third party seller and the item doesn’t match the description or doesn’t function as intended. I also cancel a lot of orders. I wonder if returns for 3rd party purchases and order cancellation get flagged in the same way.
Also, is there any easy way to print out the history of all the orders returned? I want to keep an eye out on my return ratio. Being a cheapskate, I hardly pay full retail on my items so the margins they make off me must be pretty low so I’d imagine I’m probably not as “desirable” as customer as could be.
Chartchecker says
Amazon banning a few customers (regardless of who’s at fault) just makes me not want to purchase anything from them ever again. I have been a customer since the beginning and have written numerous reviews to help other customers. To spend all that time as part of the Amazon community and know I could possibly get banned because I’m dissatisfied with 10% of my purchases in a given month (a low number considering all the damaged and defective junk I’ve received from them over the years) makes me not want to buy from them anymore. It’s hard enough taking a chance on buying something online you can’t be sure about then realizing the product has completely wasted your time (opening packages, repackaging, printing return labels, dropping to UPS, etc.), let alone having to worry that some item you’re considering will get you banned. So why take a chance at all? Mine as well buy only from Brick & Morter where items are somewhat curated. Completely defeats the purpose of buying unique products on Amazon that you can’t find locally.
Honeyman says
“To spend all that time as part of the Amazon community and know I could possibly get banned…”
You’ve come to see, I hope, that there is no such thing as belonging to “the Amazon community.” That was an illusion. Your reviews are unpaid marketing work you do for Amazon, its vendors and manufacturers. I’m not saying they didn’t help people — they certainly helped you to feel as if you were part of something bigger than shopping. But the person they really helped most is named Bezos. The same fellow who’ll kick you to the curb if you get out of line by sending back too many defective toasters.
What Amazon’s bans do is make these illusions crumble. Under the shiny surface is a not-so-warm, not-so-communal truth. Repeat it to yourself: In business, it’s all only and always about profit,
Btw, there IS an Amazon community, after all…just not the one you imagined. It’s the network of shills, cheerleaders and liars who get free crap in exchange or writing their maniacally positive “reviews.” Check out the list of goodies endlessly fed to these Vine Voices some time. You’ll be shocked to see what they’re rolling in while you live in fear of being banned for returning your new trainers that arrived with two left shoes…
Kjunk says
There isn’t a law mandating that any retailer offer refunds. There are laws regarding false advertising/misrepresentation/fraud (e.g. someone specified i7 processor in your laptop but you got an i3), and laws regarding honoring warranties, but that will rarely help the casual customer in “return” situation (e.g. if the processor for the laptop performs to spec, but its too slow for you, there is now law to demand the manufacturer/retailer do anything about it).
That said, Amazon is competing in an open marketplace, so instead of getting frustrated with amazon, just shop around. Most retailers are by now offering a lot of what amazon does online in the way of free shipping etc (just not 2 day shipping), and returns for most others (target is best) are much more convenient. I make a conscious decision to buy stuff i know I will be deciding to keep or not based on preference, from brick and mortar stores near me (even if I order online from them, i can return without worrying about return shipping).
Amazon has lost those sales from me (we bought a stand mixer and a tablet from others this year, specifically because of amazon’s policy if the return in due to preference and not defect). And guess what, we ended up returning both items at least once before settling with the versions we have now.
So just be a smarter shopper, you don’t have to buy everything from amazon- there is tough competition out there (good for customers :P) . If Target will agree to process a no-questions-asked, no-restocking-or-shipping-charge return for my $300 electronics, I won’t buy from amazon for $5 cheaper. And if Amazon will agree to deliver diapers to my house for 15% less than walmart, I won’t buy from walmart. I don’t feel any qualms if a retailers will loose money doing business with me, they unashamedly advertise their return policies in order to get my business so I will use their policies- I will make sure I am always honest about reasons I’m returning, and after that, take my business where its wanted.Enjoy it while it lasts.
Nitin says
If I create a new account, then?
Am I able to purchase? What things I have to put different like name, address, mobile no?
Do they copy mac address too?
yesenia says
They track multiple identifying criteria. 1. Name, 2. Address, 3. Credit Card #, 4. IP Address. I’ve even read comments from customers who moved to an address where the previous occupant must have been banned and were not allowed to place orders despite having a different name and credit card.
B Miller says
They’re very good at tracking banned users trying to get back on their system. You can still buy stealth accounts online though.
Cindy Kennedy says
In the past couple of years I have returned many items to Amazon, all books, and my returns are entirely their fault. I am a book collector and buy hundreds of books annually. Used to be that Amazon sent them out in nice, sturdy boxes, well-packaged.
Now, however, their policy is to send paperbacks, including tall, skinny paperbacks that bend easily, in envelopes. I would estimate that at least a third of the books they send in envelopes arrive here bent, crushed, torn, or otherwise damaged.
I’m not talking cheap mass-market paperbacks, either, the kind you might read once and discard. I order many pricey university press titles and art books that are thin, tall, and cost $50 on up. Amazon sends these out in envelopes as if they were disposable magazines. And so when I get one that is bent-to-heck, I send it back for a replacement. And then I hope that the replacement is not also destroyed when it gets here.
My account has not been cancelled, but if it was, I would be furious. The problem is not me. It is a company that sends out expensive items with no protection at all. I feel it is my right, when I pay a lot of money for a new book, to receive one that is in good shape and not damaged. Until they can start packaging their items better and get those items to buyers in the NEW shape that they were advertised as, they can expect a lot of returns.
Bill says
Thank you. My case is exactly the same. My account has not yet been banned, but it might be close to it. What I buy most on Amazon are books and comics. I dont buy cheap copies, but expensive items. The envelope they put the books in when sending them is a complete crap that damages completely the product. I wouldnt ever have consented to keep those damaged items, given the price I paid for them, but having read across the Internet that my account could get a permaban for this reason has made me keep some of those damaged items. This is insane.
B Miller says
Support your local Barnes and Noble, Since Amazon can’t pacakge books correctly now, buy them locally from a retailer that respects the merchandise.